This hand was against the fish at the table, who was running about 40/20/1.5, and I don't really know how to play this turn. What is the best line, c/c'ing then I guess c/f'ing river, ummm just c/f'ing the turn, I don't think I can bet/fold with the stack sizes. So is it ok to go ahead and bet/call it off on this turn card?
$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand Converted at CardRunners.com
Hero (MP3): $115.55 (115.6 bb)
CO: $100 (100 bb)
BTN: $71.20 (71.2 bb)
SB: $62.25 (62.3 bb)
BB: $99 (99 bb)
UTG: $100 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $216 (216 bb)
MP1: $100 (100 bb)
MP2: $147.90 (147.9 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is MP3 with 5
5
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, CO folds, BTN calls $4, SB folds, BB calls $3
Flop: ($12.50) Q
5
T (3 players)BB checks, Hero bets $9, BTN calls $9, BB folds
Turn: ($30.50) 6
(2 players)Hero bets $20, BTN raises to $58.20 and is all-in, Hero calls $38.20
River: ($146.90) J
(2 players, 1 is all-in)Results: $146.90 pot ($3 rake)
Hero showed 5
5 (three of a kind, Fives) and lost (-$71.20 net)BTN showed A
9 (a flush, Ace high) and won $143.90 ($72.70 net)This hand was against a TAG/LAGish player who was playing 19/15/3 and once this turn and river rolls off I am wondering if there is much value in my hand. It just doesn't seem like there are many one pair hands left in this range that call it off once this turn and river rolls off. Should I just c/c the river or maybe c/f, I don't really like my river bet, I just don't think there is much that calls it off, so what is the best line to take?
$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
Hand Converted at CardRunners.com
MP2: $100 (100 bb)
MP3: $105.50 (105.5 bb)
Hero (CO): $105 (105 bb)
BTN: $100 (100 bb)
SB: $100 (100 bb)
BB: $103.10 (103.1 bb)
UTG+1: $157.55 (157.6 bb)
MP1: $206.55 (206.6 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 6
94 folds, Hero raises to $4, BTN calls $4, 2 folds
Flop: ($9.50) 4
9 6 (2 players)Hero bets $8, BTN calls $8
Turn: ($25.50) J
(2 players)Hero bets $22, BTN calls $22
River: ($69.50) Q
(2 players)Hero bets $66, BTN calls $66 and is all-in
Results: $201.50 pot ($3 rake)
Hero showed 6
9 (two pairs, Nines and Sixes) and lost (-$100 net)BTN showed T
8 (a straight, Eight to Queen) and won $198.50 ($98.50 net)This last hand is just against a complete nit, who is showing his SuperNova and running at like 9/5/3 over a couple hundred hands. I was really hoping he wasn't going to raise me on the flop, and once he did I was completely froze. I did not know what to do and had no idea what the best play was. I thought about folding but I thought that was way too weak tight. With so many draws on the board, and I thought AK could be in his range, I thought I had to raise or fold. Any raise committed myself so I just decided to shove. I dunno what was optimal here, what do you guys think?
$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand Converted at CardRunners.com
UTG+1: $132.90 (132.9 bb)
Hero (MP1): $100 (100 bb)
MP2: $91.50 (91.5 bb)
MP3: $224.45 (224.5 bb)
CO: $100 (100 bb)
BTN: $112.90 (112.9 bb)
SB: $139.70 (139.7 bb)
BB: $200.50 (200.5 bb)
UTG: $100 (100 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is MP1 with K
J2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, BTN calls $4, 2 folds
Flop: ($9.50) K
J 9 (2 players)Hero bets $7, BTN raises to $18, Hero raises to $96 and is all-in, BTN calls $78
Turn: ($201.50) Q
(2 players, 1 is all-in)River: ($201.50) 4
(2 players, 1 is all-in)Results: $201.50 pot ($3 rake)
Hero showed K
J (two pairs, Kings and Jacks) and lost (-$100 net)BTN showed Q
T (a straight, Nine to King) and won $198.50 ($98.50 net) 
Hand #1 flop bet to like 11.00. That bastard is going to call with a FD stright top pair.
ReplyDeleteTurn: This is a spot I maybe getting away from too much. I am a little confused with the comment that you can't bet fold this turn based on stack size? If that is the case the deicsion is made when you bet this turn that you are never getting away from this hand. Since he is a fish and will show up with much more the just a turned flush draw then I can't feel terrible about the line you took. I would bet this turn with the intention to fold if I am rearsied since I realize that the weakest hand that takes this line is AQ/AT with the A of clubs.
Hand#2
Check fold. He is going to check back a decent ammount here and try and showdown maybe a turned jack or fd with no pair. I think checking with the intention to call sucks.
Hand#3
Well shipping here makes your hand easy for him to play. Maybe you will get him to call you with AK or nut flush draw? When I rearise this board as a nit you are toastaments
Hand #1
ReplyDeleteWith the bet sizing that I made, once he raises the turn I am getting 3.5/1 on a call, and have 9 outs even if he did already make his flush. So I think bet/folding here is no good.
Plus as you noted my bet sizing was to small on the flop, so if I would have made correct bet sizing on both streets I'd be getting even better odds on a call.
Hand #2
I think I like check/calling here a lot more than check/folding. Here's why, when he just goes call/call on the flop and turn, his range is probably 75% flush draws, and the 78 open ended straight draw. So once that river blanks out for like 90% of draws, I really like the check to induce the shove from villain. Just because I think only maybe 25% of his range at most would be shoving for value on that river, and the rest would have to be missed draws.
Hand # 3
So what do you suggest?!?! Do I just call on that draw heavy of a board? Do I re-raise less, and then just shoot myself in the head when he ships and I'm getting like 4/1. Ummm I don't think I can possibly just muck a hand this strong to once raise, just because he is so damn nitty, can I?!?!
Hand#1
ReplyDeleteI am aware "we are getting 3.5/1 on a call, and have 9 outs even if he did already make his flush." If there really is not any room for discussion beyond the odds to call then you are making the right play mathmatically and you can't be upset about that. However, I believe there is something to be said about making a large fold. We have talked about the range of hands and have laid out that the worst card he can have here is a Acx type hand. I think the ability to make big laydowns and stack protection is worth mentioning.
Hand#2
If you have history with villain and recognize that he is capable of making this shove here with a missed flush draw then check call is your answer.
Hand#3 scary flop, he bets and you shove. I think it is an easy play for your villain to make a decision but it really is the only play you have. The problem we are having is this player is not a gambling type player so we are not as excited about shoving here. I think this is a spot where average player become great players. They recognize the opponent type and realize there is no way this tight ass player is shoving with at last a set of massive draw and they lay this down.
Ok so in hand number one you are conceding that we are basically getting the right odds to stack off even if he does have a made flush. And you also say that he could have AcQ, KcQ type of hands in this spot, in which we are a big favorite. So I think that it would be a pretty big mistake, equity wise, to try and make a "big laydown" here. Yea sure we are beat 8 times out of 10 which is probably why our brain is telling us to get away from the hand. But when looking at his whole range I think we have good enough equity here that bet/folding and check/folding are big mistakes.
ReplyDeleteOn hand number two I think even without history that villain with bluff missed draws, this is still a good spot to c/c. Just because when we look at his whole range there just are not very many hands at all that will call the flop, call turn and then bet river for value. I mean realistically there just aren't almost any hands that would take that line for value. They'd have to raise a set on a board like that before the river almost always. I guess it could be a slow played JJ or QQ, but that's awfully narrow as well. I just really think that c/f'ing here is pretty weak when you try to consider how many combinations of hands have us beat, and how many different combos we beat, and I think we're crushing that range.
Hand number 3 your telling me that your going to fold to one raise on that board w top two pair? I don't know if that is great play, or weak tight play. Are we just basically putting him on 99 or what? Someone else suggested to just flat the raise and then lead on blank turns and fold to a raise. I think that's probably optimal, what do you think?
I think it would be foolish for me to comment any further. All of the lines I would take are "weak tight". It sounds like you really have thought about the ranges and you are playing optimal.
ReplyDelete"It doesn't matter if he has a made flush or a higher set, either way you got 10 outs because against QQ/TT you are drawing to a flush/quads (villain can't have a flush). Anyways, just putting his range on sets/flushes is way too tight, he might have some sort of AQ etc. I defo call this."
ReplyDeletehere is a great response to your first hand by the way.